Plagiarizing SITH

 

Jacob Hansen jumps the shark

While making a case for the Book of Mormon, Jacob Hansen makes the case for the critics who wrote Mormonism Unvailed and published SITH before our latter-day scholars latched onto it.

Whether he promotes SITH intentionally or ignorantly, Jacob should study the history of SITH before promoting it on his channel. 

Jacob could start here: 

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/p/the-sith-problem-1829-2024.html

(We could say the same for Royal Skousen, Gerrit Dirkmaat, Jasmine Rappleye, the Interpreters, and other SITH sayers, but they are too firmly attached to SITH to consider the possibility that Joseph and Oliver told the truth.)

_____

The SITH narrative was spelled out in the 1835 anti-Mormon book Mormonism Unvailed:

Instead of looking at the characters inscribed upon the plates, the prophet was obliged to resort to the old "peep stone," which he formerly used in money-digging. This he placed in a hat, or box, into which he also thrust his face. Through the stone he could then discover a single word at a time, which he repeated aloud to his amanuensis, who committed it to paper, when another word would immediately appear, and thus the performance continued to the end of the book.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o8SxwgK56H4

We can all see that Joseph and Oliver rejected this narrative and explained, repeatedly, that Joseph translated the engravings on the plates by means of the Urim and Thummim that came with the plates.

But the SITH sayers prefer the Mormonism Unvailed narrative. As Royal Skousen famously claims,

"Joseph Smith’s claim that he used the Urim and Thummim is only partially true; and Oliver Cowdery’s statements that Joseph used the original instrument while he, Oliver, was the scribe appear to be intentionally misleading."

According to professor Skousen, Joseph only used the Urim and Thummim for the lost 116 pages. Skousen uses a euphemism--"appear to be intentionally misleading"--to soften his assertion that Joseph and Oliver lied.

Which was exactly the point Mormonism Unvailed tried to make.

And now Jacob Hansen has joined the SITH sayers to repudiate what Joseph and Oliver clearly taught.

_____

Jacob starts his video by saying, "I want him to stick his head in a hat."

Later in the video, Jacob claims Joseph Smith produced the Book of Mormon "all with his face buried in a hat."

Who needs critics when well-known LDS apologists are undermining the credibility of Joseph and Oliver?

Robots and IQ

 

A guy goes into a bar in New York where the bartender is a robot. The guy sits down at the bar, and the robot asks: "What will you have? The guy replies, "Root beer." The robot brings back his drink and asks, "What's your IQ?" The guy says, "168." The robot talks about physics, space exploration, and medical technology. 

After the guy leaves, he pauses at the street corner and thinks about what he just encountered, and the more he thinks about it, the more curious he gets, so he decides to go back. The robot asks, "What's your drink?" The guy answers, "Root beer." The robot returns with his drink and asks, "What's your IQ?" This time, the man replies "100." The robot talks about movies, music, and politics. The man finishes his drink and leaves, but he is so interested in this "experiment" that he decides he'll try again. 

He enters the bar and, as usual, the robot asks him what he wants to drink. The man replies, "Root beer." The robot brings the drink and asks, "What's your IQ?" This time, the man answers "50." The robot leans in real close and s-l-o-w-l-y asks, "So, are you people still promoting SITH and M2C?"

More fun with SITH to start 2026

When I write "fun with SITH" it's not because I think SITH is funny.

Not at all.

In my view, SITH is tragic.

After all, it originated with the first anti-Mormon book Mormonism Unvailed, which picked it up partly from one of the original anti-Mormons Jonathan Hadley of Palmyra. 

Joseph, Oliver, and their successors in Church leadership denounced it and reiterated Joseph's explanation that he translated the plates by means of the Urim and Thummim that came with the plates.

But then certain LDS scholars decided it was more fun to resurrect the Mormonism Unvailed narrative, and now they've managed to turn it into quasi-canonized status through the Gospel Topics Essay.

Pure tragedy.

That's why from time to time we post examples from social media.

_____

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w04xU72SJNQ

0:00

I got to sit down for this one. Okay, so I get sent a lot of crazy stories about Mormon faith construction. This one I'm going to tell you is legit the craziest thing that I have heard involving Elder Holland. So get comfy. 

0:14

So my friend is serving a mission in the early '90s. Let's say in Wisconsin. In this particular area, the people are really kind, but they just are not open to hearing about Mormonism except for one person, a pastor, a Christian pastor. So he says to them, "Come over to my house. I will feed you dinner. You can teach me your doctrine and I get to share some things with you. Deal?" 

0:38

And they were like, "Yeah, this is great." They developed this great rapport with this pastor family. So one day when they're done sharing their discussion, the pastor says, "I want to now talk to you about Mormon history." They're like, "Great. We're experts in Mormon history.

0:52

We're missionaries." He said, "Okay, so you must know then that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon using rocks in a hat." He said they were magic rocks. He would put them in a hat. They would illuminate the words that were to be written for the Book of Mormon. And that's how the Book of Mormon came about. The missionaries looked at each other and went, "I don't think so." The pastor responded, "Yeah, see, that's the thing. Most people of the LDS faith don't know their real history." 

1:20

My friend was so troubled by this situation. This kind person sharing information that just couldn't possibly be true. 

1:29

It just so happened that Elder Holland was visiting the area at that time. My friend ended up sitting down with Elder Holland to talk to him about this matter. He tells him, "Look, I sat down with this pastor. He told me about these rocks and a hat and Joseph Smith."

1:41

And Elder Holland responded, "Elder, how does that make you feel?" He says, "Well, it makes me feel terrible inside. absolutely sick to my stomach. To which Elder Holland replies, I want you to remember that feeling. This is an example of how the adversary is planting lies. This is evidence of the truthfulness of the gospel. Otherwise, why would Satan be working so hard against it? It made sense. 

2:07

My friend went home from his mission. He married. He had a beautiful family. And years later, he would be teaching gospel doctrine. After one gospel doctrine class, someone came to him and said, "I really appreciated your lesson because I've been really struggling with my testimony." He says, "What have you been struggling with?" He says, "Well, the gospel topics essays, in particular, the one about the rocks and the hat." 

2:30

My friend pauses and as the man continues to talk, his life sort of flashes before his eyes. The church has come forward explaining that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon with rocks in a hat and that that was the end for him.

@SteveSmith-os5bs

3 hours ago

I went on my mission to Michigan in 1978. I remember showing investigators a picture of Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon directly from the gold plates. It was decades later that I found out that Joseph Smith translated the whole book using magic seer stones in a hat. It wasn't any one thing that pushed me out of the church, it was continuing to find out that the entire church history was built on lie after lie and exaggeration.

@starguy2718

5 hours ago

Mormon Church: "The rocks in the hat story is more lies from Satan." Also Mormon Church: "Um, actually the rocks in the hat story is true."

 

More from Alfred...

 

More fun with SITH in Saints, volume 1

 

I'm finally getting around to annotating the Saints book, volume 1. We continually meet people who have read Saints and believe it is accurate.

I wish it was. It could easily be corrected, except no one in the Church History Department seems to care about correcting errors.

I noticed this example from chapter 3:

Look at this sentence:

Moroni said that God had chosen Joseph to renew the covenant, and that if he chose to be faithful to God’s commands, he would be the one to reveal the record on the plates.¹¹

This is fun because note 11 cites Letter IV. 

Oliver Cowdery, “Letter IV,” LDS Messenger and Advocate, Feb. 1835, 1:78–79 (see also later version, in JSP, H1:59); Lucy Mack Smith, History, 1844–45, book 3, [11].

Instead of linking to Letter IV in the Joseph Smith Papers, which would be easy and clear, the link goes to the cover of the Messenger and Advocate on archive.org!

Then you have to find pages 78-9 which looks like this:

​

and it is the wrong page!

Below is the passage on page 80, which of course they would never actually quote in Saints because Moroni specifically told Joseph he had the privilege to translate with the Urim and Thummim that came with the plates. 

Instead, the historians want to make people think Moroni told Joseph he would "reveal the record;" i.e., that instead of using the Urim and Thummim and actually translating the engravings, Joseph would read words that appeared on the stone-in-the-hat (SITH).

It would be far more accurate, and clearer to readers, if Saints simply quoted the reference instead of paraphrasing it and completely changing the meaning.

Here is the actual passage.

He said this history was written and deposited not far from that place, and that it was our brother’s privilege, if obedient to the commandments of the Lord, to obtain and translate the same by the means of the Urim and Thummim, which were deposited for that purpose with the record.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/68

M2Cers blames Mormon

M2Cer blames Mormon for not writing more than a hundredth part.

_____

13 And now there are many records kept of the proceedings of this people, by many of this people, which are particular and very large, concerning them.

14 But behold, a hundredth part of the proceedings of this people, yea, the account of the Lamanites and of the Nephites, 

and their wars, and contentions, and dissensions, 

and their preaching, and their prophecies, 

and their shipping and their building of ships, 

and their building of temples, and of synagogues and their sanctuaries, and their righteousness, 

and their wickedness, and their murders, and their robbings, and their plundering, 

and all manner of abominations and whoredoms, cannot be contained in this work.

15 But behold, there are many books and many records of every kind, and they have been kept chiefly by the Nephites.
(Helaman 3:13–15)

1 or 2: Cumorah and seer stones

 

Where to find seer stones

 

SITH as the "best evidence"

I had forgotten about this gem: 

The hat is our strongest evidence of a divine translation through the gift and power of God.

It comes from this post:

Church historians of an earlier era were embarrassed at the image of Joseph Smith with his head buried in his hat. The hat is our strongest evidence of a divine translation through the gift and power of God. Joseph Smith was not consulting reference materials. He was not collaborating with a team of experts. He was reading words that appeared on a stone in the bottom of a hat. The whole thing is simply astonishing and supernatural.

Joseph put his face in a hat to shut out light so the words appearing on his seer stone were easier to read. This is a direct fulfillment of Alma 37:23 interpreted in light of pre-1981 editions of D&C Sections 78, 82 & 104 where Joseph Smith is called "Gazelam."

https://bookofmormonresources.blogspot.com/2015/03/english-in-book-of-mormon.html

Some of us think that what Joseph and Oliver explained is the strongest evidence of divine translation. 

https://www.mobom.org/church-history-issues

But people can believe whatever they want.

If people prefer the Mormonism Unvailed explanation instead of what Joseph and Oliver said... well, that's why we have this blog.

:)

The party

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” - George Orwell, 1984

_____

With the specific assistance of Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery wrote a detailed description of Moroni's visit in 1835.

He [Moroni] said this history was written and deposited not far from that place, and that it was our brother’s privilege, if obedient to the commandments of the Lord, to obtain and translate the same by the means of the Urim and Thummim, which were deposited for that purpose with the record.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/68

Responding to ongoing confusion about the translation, Joseph Smith answered the question  in the Elders Journal in 1838.

Question 4th. How, and where did you obtain the Book of Mormon?

Answer. Moroni, the person who deposited the plates, from whence the Book of Mormon   was translated, in a hill in Manchester, Ontario County, New York, being dead, and raised again therefrom, appeared unto me and told me where they were and gave me directions how to obtain them. I obtained them and the Urim and Thummim with them, by the means of which I translated the plates and thus came the Book of Mormon.

(Elders’ Journal I.3:42 ¶20–43 ¶1)

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/elders-journal-july-1838/11 

https://www.mobom.org/translation-references

Brad Wilcox explains SITH

Some people still haven't seen this, but it's a lot of fun. It explains why so many BYU students are so confused when they eventually learn what Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, John Whitmer, and Martin Harris said.

Many LDS can't understand why these SITH sayers don't follow basic principles of historical analysis. Early statements by the principals are generally more reliable than late statements by people with agendas.

Translating with dinosaur gizzard stone (Gastrolith)

The SITH sayers, such as Royal Skousen and his followers at the Interpreter, prefer the SITH narrative from Mormonism Unvailed over what Joseph and Oliver said.

See https://archive.org/details/mormonismunvaile00howe/page/18/mode/2up

These SITH sayers insist that Joseph and Oliver deliberately misled us all when they taught (repeatedly, and in print) that Joseph translated the plates by means of the Urim and Thummim that came with the plates.

E.g., In his latest book, Brother Skousen makes plain this reality: everyone who teaches SITH is also teaching that Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery deliberately misled everyone about the origin of the Book of Mormon.

"Joseph Smith’s claim that he used the Urim and Thummim is only partially true; and Oliver Cowdery’s statements that Joseph used the original instrument while he, Oliver, was the scribe appear to be intentionally misleading."

https://www.bookofmormoncentralamerica.com/2024/11/thank-you-royal-skousen.html

Instead, the SITH sayers insist that Joseph read words off of a stone from a dinosaur's gizzard (technically, a gastrolith).

(See my conversation with Grok about this here:

https://www.ldshistoricalnarratives.com/p/origin-of-seer-stone.html

_____

According to them, some dinosaur ate the stone in Wyoming and somehow crossed a couple of thousand miles to New York, where it died, leaving the gastrolith where Joseph Smith could find it while digging in a well.

Okay...

_____

Actual scientists explain the reality about dinosaurs in New York:

Can you find dinosaur bones in New York?

Finding actual dinosaur bones is quite rare in New York. Our state’s geology is primarily comprised of rock layers from the Paleozoic era, which predates the Mesozoic era when dinosaurs roamed the Earth.

While we’re rich in fossils from the Devonian and Ordovician periods, these are mainly marine fossils like trilobites and brachiopods, not dinosaurs. New York has a significant record of Ice Age mammals and other ancient creatures, though.

https://rockchasing.com/fossils-in-new-york/

Some graphics help explain Royal Skousen's theory:

Graphic on the translation

There are awesome new websites about Church History locations. They have lots of valuable information about the sites and what transpired there, including some useful graphics.

This one focuses on Harmony and includes a graphic about the translation of the Book of Mormon.

https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/exhibit/historic-sites/pennsylvania/priesthood-restoration-site/priesthood-restoration-revelations?lang=eng#mv2

In this post we offer suggestions for improvement.

(click to enlarge)

Here's where "fun with SITH" comes in.

It is amazing how determined some people are to erase the Urim and Thummim from the narrative so they can replace it with SITH instead (the stone-in-the-hat narrative).

The bottom section of the graphic shows a quotation from Joseph Smith as a complete sentence.

But in reality, they edited out the first part of the sentence from the Wentworth letter, which anyone can read here:

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/times-and-seasons-1-march-1842/5

(click to enlarge)

The first part of the sentence reads, "Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim."

Obviously, this is a significant omission.

Even better, they didn't even show the omission with ellipses. Crazy stuff.

We suggest that the graphic would be improved by including the entire sentence.

_____

The graphic also show the "working days" as 65, completely ignoring what Lucy Mack Smith and David Whitmer said. David said it took 8 months. Lucy explained that when she visited Joseph in the fall of 1828, Joseph told her he had received back the U&T and was translating again. That's what led me to conclude that Joseph translated all or most of the Book of Mosiah before Oliver came in April 1829.

Lucy related her experience when she came to visit Joseph in Harmony in the fall of 1828. 

when I entered his house the first thing that attracted [p. 135] my attention was a red morocco trunk, that set on Emma’s bureau; which trunk Joseph shortly informed me, contained the Urim and Thummim and the plates. 

In the evening he gave us the following relation of what had transpired since our separation… [quoting Joseph, p. 138] “on the 22d of September, I had the joy and satisfaction of again receiving the Urim and Thummim; and have commenced translating again, and Emma writes for me; but the angel said that the Lord would send me a scribe, and <​I​> trust his promise will be verified. He also seemed pleased with me, when he gave me back the Urim and Thummim; and he told me that the Lord loved me, for my faithfulness and humility.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845/142

This graphic shows the whole problem.

(click to enlarge)

Dumb politicians, or dumb voters?

The idiocy shown in this video compares with the crazy SITH-promoting videos on YouTube. The question is are the politicians really this dumb, or do they just think the voters are?

https://x.com/BreitbartNews/status/1895102702377427276

Breitbart News

@BreitbartNews

JB Pritzker: "The prices at the grocery store are going up because democracy is being taken away." Impossible to parody this.

SITH vs U&T: Why does it matter?

This podcast does a great job showing why it matters whether people accept or reject what Oliver and Joseph said about the translation.

Seerstone in a hat translation ! Why does it matter Oliver Cowdery is key.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w-_U4D3g6M

Hannah Stoddard's view

Hannah is awesome. I don't always agree with her interpretations, but she's an outstanding defender of the faith. 

For example, her framing of "traditionalist vs progressive" unduly implicates political issues. SITH is not a new or progressive theory. It was articulated first in 1829 by Jonathan Hadley, and then in 1834 in Mormonism Unvailed as an alternative to the Urim and Thummim narrative. 

That's why Oliver Cowdery wrote Letter I (JS-H note) and why Joseph and Oliver emphasized that Joseph used the Urim and Thummim that came with the plates.

In my view, SITH is a question of the reliability and credibility of Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery (the same as M2C). But Hannah makes good points as well.

Here's her Facebook post.

Hannah Stoddard

SteonopsrdarF1au r6het3ca04t6f4u4f2f7 h3aPb:7i64lm1 fyfM4 0g  · 

Over the last week, I have seen heated debates over the translation of the Book of Mormon, and through those conversations, a few misunderstandings that are easy to clarify! Here are two simple reasons why traditionalist members often have a problem with the seer stone translation hypothesis (simplified ):

A) Promoters of the seer stone translation hypothesis almost always accuse Joseph Smith of being involved in folk magic or worse. It's not seer stones that are the problem, but stones used for occultic/magic/non-God ordained purposes. Traditionalists never deny seer stones exist (this is a straw man argument that progressives use to manipulate the traditionalist case), but traditionalists do draw a clear distinction between instruments God ordains through priesthood order and covenants, versus dark and evil counterfeits. Joseph Smith never dabbled or used power from the adversary. Period. No, Joseph Smith did not have a career in treasure digging, and no, he was not a "village seer" running around using occultic tools to prepare him for the priesthood.

B) Adopting the progressive narrative requires you to accept claims made by individuals who were either apostates or anti-mormons when they made their claims. Their own statements contradict Joseph Smith's personal and repeated testimony, and sometimes they even contradict themselves. If you lived in Jesus Christ's day, would you believe Herod's testimony over Peter's or John's? Would you really accept Caiaphases' narrative over Jesus Christ? Apparently many progressive members, who are historians and scholars, would.

No, Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of Mormon using a seer stone in a hat. He used the plates, the Urim & Thummim (a Jaredite-Nephite instrument prepared specifically for this purpose), and the breastplate.

And these, my friends, are two reasons why traditionalist members of the Church have a problem with the new progressive narrative. It's not because we don't have faith, we're limiting God, or are history and science deniers. We simply believe in God's ordained Priesthood order, and trust men and women with character and faith, over slanderers and enemies. And that position I am happy to meet the Lord with on the other side.

(I'm leaving some links in the comments to podcasts and other articles to back up the information above, for those interested.)